[RELEASE] SUPER TOURING WORLD 2.23

My issue with sounds is that they use the wrong ones from different cars. 155 and most Production cars using Lotus sounds, all Toyotas using same generic sounds and so on, one of the Nissans (Sunny?) was even using Audi sounds. Each car was unique, most of them had different engines, but this difference isn't highligthed in regards to sounds.

For instance, the Primera and the Sentra had the same SR20DET engine (without the turbo) used in the 240SX, S14 and S15, the Chaser had the same 1JZ engine (albeit detuned) from the Supra and so on. I changed them all to accurate ones for each car so is not a problem anymore, but it was just an incovenience having to source other mods for correct sounds. It's just as if all sounds in the base mod were assigned just by manufacturer rather than by model.

Not a critic, just an observation. As at the end of the day I noticed that I ended up using 0% of the original sounds that I downloaded with v2.2 and managed to find correct ones for all the different cars after all .auds were replaced, I think it could've been possible to do a better job in that regard.

Other than that, I haven't much else to say. The current v2.22 physic is fine, at 120% difficulty the ai is very fast and cheats by having more grip through the corners, but still possible to race it competitively.

Sounds were always a problem because most of the 4 cylinder sound out there don't sound anything like super tourers. A lot of the sounds by Simbin for S2000 cars are too weak and synthetic and most never sounded like the rear cars.
Some sounds were suggested to me previously such as Opel Kadett sounds for the Opel Vectra weren't even close to how the ST cars sound.

ChaosZero wrote:My issue with sounds is that they use the wrong ones from different cars. 155 and most Production cars using Lotus sounds, all Toyotas using same generic sounds and so on, one of the Nissans (Sunny?) was even using Audi sounds. Each car was unique, most of them had different engines, but this difference isn't highligthed in regards to sounds.

For instance, the Primera and the Sentra had the same SR20DET engine (without the turbo) used in the 240SX, S14 and S15, the Chaser had the same 1JZ engine (albeit detuned) from the Supra and so on. I changed them all to accurate ones for each car so is not a problem anymore, but it was just an incovenience having to source other mods for correct sounds. It's just as if all sounds in the base mod were assigned just by manufacturer rather than by model.

Not a critic, just an observation. As at the end of the day I noticed that I ended up using 0% of the original sounds that I downloaded with v2.2 and managed to find correct ones for all the different cars after all .auds were replaced, I think it could've been possible to do a better job in that regard.

Other than that, I haven't much else to say. The current v2.22 physic is fine, at 120% difficulty the ai is very fast and cheats by having more grip through the corners, but still possible to race it competitively.

JTCC Chaser use  3S-GE same engine found in other toyota ST car

ChaosZero wrote:My issue with sounds is that they use the wrong ones from different cars. 155 and most Production cars using Lotus sounds, all Toyotas using same generic sounds and so on, one of the Nissans (Sunny?) was even using Audi sounds. Each car was unique, most of them had different engines, but this difference isn't highligthed in regards to sounds.

For instance, the Primera and the Sentra had the same SR20DET engine (without the turbo) used in the 240SX, S14 and S15, the Chaser had the same 1JZ engine (albeit detuned) from the Supra and so on. I changed them all to accurate ones for each car so is not a problem anymore, but it was just an incovenience having to source other mods for correct sounds. It's just as if all sounds in the base mod were assigned just by manufacturer rather than by model.

Not a critic, just an observation. As at the end of the day I noticed that I ended up using 0% of the original sounds that I downloaded with v2.2 and managed to find correct ones for all the different cars after all .auds were replaced, I think it could've been possible to do a better job in that regard.

Other than that, I haven't much else to say. The current v2.22 physic is fine, at 120% difficulty the ai is very fast and cheats by having more grip through the corners, but still possible to race it competitively.

simspeed_racing wrote:Sounds were always a problem because most of the 4 cylinder sound  out there don't sound anything like super tourers. A lot of the sounds by Simbin for S2000 cars are too weak and synthetic and most never sounded like the rear cars.  
Some sounds were suggested to me previously such as Opel Kadett sounds for the Opel Vectra weren't even close to how the ST cars sound.

Sounds are easily the weakest point of the mod, but the lack of source material is a major issue. There are other samples for interior SFX available but I don't know anyone who can do them. At the moment, it's the best that can be done.

simspeed_racing wrote:No I tried those in the very early days of this mod and in GTR2 the AI would struggle to stay on track and had a tendency to roll over without much effort.

That makes sense, thank you.

Best,
X8X8X

A have another question about the talent files.  I picked some of them to see what was inside out of curiosity . My interest went first on french drivers (of course from me since I'm French) to see what was said about them and ...I was surprised to see numerous mistakes , many of them have a wrong nationality even the most famous ones as F1 drivers. Some examples :
Jean Alesi ? British , Jacques Lafitte ? UK, Philippe Alliot ? UK, Paul Belmondo ? nowhere , Jean-Christophe Boullion FR (OK), Eric Comas? Germany,  Yannick Dalmas? Australia.......
Nothing about the career even though they aren't anonymous drivers.
A fast survey gave me the same thing for other nationalities so Alan Jones Former F1 Champion as Scot with BTTC credentials ! (Bathusrt contender in 1993/94 in fact I suppose) and more... he shared exactly the same biography as German Joachim Winkelhock, Scot too..... Generally British drivers have more accurate treatment.
So I wonder if it's possible to appreciate a racing  ability without any knowledge about the driver ? Is it a part of the game to mix chances ? Is it only informative with no consequences ?

Follow me, I'm not here to criticize and I'm aware it's a tremendous work to build hundreds of  forms but then which creterias are taken to caracterize a driving talent?
.
(if it's only errors, I'll help as much as I can)    so GTR2 still puzzles me.....even when I don't drive........

Jean Alesi
{
//Driver Info
Abbreviation=J.Alesi
Nationality=UnitedKingdom
NatAbbrev=GBR
DateOfBirth=1974 York
CareerHighlights
{
 7th IN BTCC 1995
 10th IN BTCC 1996
 5th IN BTCC 1997
 3rd IN BTCC 1998
 4th IN BTCC 1999
 9th IN BTCC 2000
 3rd IN BTCC 2001
 1st IN BTCC 2002
 1st IN BTCC 2004
 8th IN WTCC 2005
}

//Driver Stats
StartsDry=4.0                      //Average number of drivers passed during start (-4 - 4)
StartsWet=4.0          
StartStalls=17.0                       //% of starts where driver stalled
QualifyingAbility=2.40          //Average qualifying position NOTE: keep GT between 1 -15
RaceAbility=2.1               //Range 0 - 6.2 (0 is best)
Consistency=2.0
RainAbility=2.00                  //Range 0 - 6.2 (0 is best)
Passing=100.0                     //% of times driver completed a successfull pass, not including pit stops or lapped traffic
Crash=22.0                         //% of times driver crashed
Recovery=80                      //% of times driver continued after a crash
CompletedLaps%=97
Script=default.scp
TrackAggression=1.5


// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
 CorneringAdd=1.35
CorneringMult=.965

//AI Throttle Control - how good they are at their own traction control upon throttle application
TCGripThreshold=0.7   // Range: 0.0-1.0
TCThrottleFract=1.2   // Range: 0.0-???
TCResponse=0.0        // Range: 0.0-???

//AI skill mistake variables
MinRacingSkill = 0.98 // 0.96
Composure = 0.010

//AI ColdBrain variables
RaceColdBrainMin=0.98
RaceColdBrainTime=0
QualColdBrainMin=0.95
QualColdBrainTime=0

The game only need the informations in green to make the .rcd work properly.
The red is useless and just flavor text nobody cares about.

ChaosZero wrote:

Jean Alesi
{
//Driver Info
Abbreviation=J.Alesi
Nationality=UnitedKingdom
NatAbbrev=GBR
DateOfBirth=1974 York
CareerHighlights
{
 7th IN BTCC 1995
 10th IN BTCC 1996
 5th IN BTCC 1997
 3rd IN BTCC 1998
 4th IN BTCC 1999
 9th IN BTCC 2000
 3rd IN BTCC 2001
 1st IN BTCC 2002
 1st IN BTCC 2004
 8th IN WTCC 2005
}

//Driver Stats
StartsDry=4.0                      //Average number of drivers passed during start (-4 - 4)
StartsWet=4.0          
StartStalls=17.0                       //% of starts where driver stalled
QualifyingAbility=2.40          //Average qualifying position NOTE: keep GT between 1 -15
RaceAbility=2.1               //Range 0 - 6.2 (0 is best)
Consistency=2.0
RainAbility=2.00                  //Range 0 - 6.2 (0 is best)
Passing=100.0                     //% of times driver completed a successfull pass, not including pit stops or lapped traffic
Crash=22.0                         //% of times driver crashed
Recovery=80                      //% of times driver continued after a crash
CompletedLaps%=97
Script=default.scp
TrackAggression=1.5


// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
 CorneringAdd=1.35
CorneringMult=.965

//AI Throttle Control - how good they are at their own traction control upon throttle application
TCGripThreshold=0.7   // Range: 0.0-1.0
TCThrottleFract=1.2   // Range: 0.0-???
TCResponse=0.0        // Range: 0.0-???

//AI skill mistake variables
MinRacingSkill = 0.98 // 0.96
Composure = 0.010

//AI ColdBrain variables
RaceColdBrainMin=0.98
RaceColdBrainTime=0
QualColdBrainMin=0.95
QualColdBrainTime=0

The game only need the informations in green to make the .rcd work properly.
The red is useless and just flavor text nobody cares about.

Yup, those were just ignored as they have no function or effect.

Mottois wrote:A have another question about the talent files.  I picked some of them to see what was inside out of curiosity . My interest went first on french drivers (of course from me since I'm French) to see what was said about them and ...I was surprised to see numerous mistakes , many of them have a wrong nationality even the most famous ones as F1 drivers. Some examples :
Jean Alesi ? British , Jacques Lafitte ? UK, Philippe Alliot ? UK, Paul Belmondo ? nowhere , Jean-Christophe Boullion FR (OK), Eric Comas? Germany,  Yannick Dalmas? Australia.......
Nothing about the career even though they aren't anonymous drivers.
A fast survey gave me the same thing for other nationalities so Alan Jones Former F1 Champion as Scot with BTTC credentials ! (Bathusrt contender in 1993/94 in fact I suppose) and more... he shared exactly the same biography as German Joachim Winkelhock, Scot too..... Generally British drivers have more accurate treatment.
So I wonder if it's possible to appreciate a racing  ability without any knowledge about the driver ? Is it a part of the game to mix chances ? Is it only informative with no consequences ?

Follow me, I'm not here to criticize and I'm aware it's a tremendous work to build hundreds of  forms but then which creterias are taken to caracterize a driving talent?
.
(if it's only errors, I'll help as much as I can)    so GTR2 still puzzles me.....even when I don't drive........

Most of the BTCC ones have the correct info from what i recall

Is it possible to download from anywhere but mega? because I have the login but it execede the limit all the time downloading only 200mb - 300mb per day

Some talent files had correct info already from the places I sourced them but as already said the game does not use that section so it would be pointless to change them. Many were copied when creating new files for other drivers hence the incorrect info in many. The first edition of this mod only had a couple of seasons of BTCC so I added a lot of the correct stats before realising it was a waste of time.
If people really want a lot of the stats in one place check out [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Also asking if it’s possible to “appreciate driving ability without driver knowledge” grossly under estimates just how much research has gone into this mod in trying to develop talent files that reflect the driver abilities. I can’t speak for other people who have been involved in this mod but I spent hours and hours watching footage and trawling through results of all the various series for which I made talent files, the mod has changed how it uses them now but at one point there was something like 1400 individual files.

simspeed_racing wrote:Also asking if it’s possible to “appreciate driving ability without driver knowledge” grossly under estimates just how much research has gone into this mod in trying to develop talent files that reflect the driver abilities. I can’t speak for other people who have been involved in this mod but I spent hours and hours watching footage and trawling through results of all the various series for which I made talent files, the mod has changed how it uses them now but at one point there was something like 1400 individual files.

He was clearly referring to the biography of the drivers.

Alesi in "my" example appears to have had an extensive BTCC career even if that wasn't the case because at the time he was busy with F1, something that doesn't reflect his "true career" in super touring.

Not knowing that the .rcd doesn't care for said biography, he wrongly thought that you just put random numbers and data in without realizing the bottom section was actually accurate and what was relevant for the game to work properly.

simspeed_racing wrote:Also asking if it’s possible to “appreciate driving ability without driver knowledge” grossly under estimates just how much research has gone into this mod in trying to develop talent files that reflect the driver abilities. I can’t speak for other people who have been involved in this mod but I spent hours and hours watching footage and trawling through results of all the various series for which I made talent files, the mod has changed how it uses them now but at one point there was something like 1400 individual files.

I'm sorry if you feel a little angry about my questions since I'have always been very admirative of all the amount of work done. Please consider the last part of my post "Is it (= the biography) only informative with no consequences ?" Several persons gave the answer. So as the Brits used to say...."Curiosity killed the cat."
By the way the mod took 95% of my gaming time during the last six weeks and I'm eager for the next updates and thankfull for all the developpers.

By the way, in v2.22/2.22b the revised .hdc for the 80 refers to a new quattro.sp file that is missing in action, thus making all the 80s not to appear. Only temporary solution is to revert back to v2.2 and use the default st_fwd.sp one.

I wasn't angry, just responding.

Thanks for notes regarding the Audi 80 quattro. Confirming that bug and starting work on 2.23, thanks for your time.

Physics now are going to remain largely unchanged barring Audi's & BMW, and also allowed adjustments of the spring rate.

GTP_furinkazen wrote:Thanks for notes regarding the Audi 80 quattro. Confirming that bug and starting work on 2.23, thanks for your time.

Physics now are going to remain largely unchanged barring Audi's & BMW, and also allowed adjustments of the spring rate.

At least change the default setups. RWD with the Simbin 90/5 ARB works fine with these. Also smoothen out the gear ratios on some of the cars, they just slow the AI cars down.

theravenousbeast wrote:

GTP_furinkazen wrote:Thanks for notes regarding the Audi 80 quattro. Confirming that bug and starting work on 2.23, thanks for your time.

Physics now are going to remain largely unchanged barring Audi's & BMW, and also allowed adjustments of the spring rate.

At least change the default setups. RWD with the Simbin 90/5 ARB works fine with these. Also smoothen out the gear ratios on some of the cars, they just slow the AI cars down.

Yeah the anti roll does need a tweak on BMW, gear ratios might have little bit tweaking especially around 3rd/4th.

WIP reshading of BMW cockpit. Shaders etc still being worked on.

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if it helps 1.01.56

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intelpower wrote:if it helps  1.01.56

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I have this DVD but thanks.

BMW exterior view - rollcage recoloured.

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So let's clarify future plans here:

2.23 will be small physics tweaks and couple fixes only.

2.3 will follow and be a substantial update hence the name, with updated damage modelling, shading, interior and car details. The BMW screens I posted earlier are a small taste and example of what will be to come.

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Reshaded E36 cockpit, thoughts / criticisms / suggestions?

Still think interior dash can do with work.
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