Re: [RELEASE] SUPER TOURING WORLD 2.23

**GTP_furinkazen** 29/3/2018, 15:15

Mottois wrote:
GTP_furinkazen wrote:
alphalead15 wrote:For some reason my windshield is black and i cant see out of it not sure if this is a problem with the mod or something i have but it only affects this mod

Problem with the HQ windscreen mod. Over at NoGrip we are working on a way of making it compatible.

Will have some info next few days on contents of 2.22, which will perhaps be the most important update of all for the mod.

Thank you for your great mod, the equivalent of Power and Glory !
May I suggest a few changes ?

1. Why do you use 800/600 format for your introduction (Lod) image of the circuit which gives ugly transformation on mainstream 16/9 screens ?
2. Cars spécifications are needed when you choose one before a race. Why don't you use this soft "Showroom Tech Specs1-11.exe" which easily create the missing files ?

1) What do you mean?
2) What's that? Never heard of it.

V2.22 is released soon by the way. V2.23 work has already begun - that will be a mainly visual update for items such as steering wheels, interior trim and banners.

**GTP_furinkazen** 29/3/2018, 15:39

SUPER TOURING WORLD V2.22 UPDATE by FRM (Furi Race Mods)

Download: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

NOTES / INSTALLATION:
>Delete following folders from your GTR2 install BEFORE installation:
“Gamedata\Teams\Production Class\Alfa Romeo 156 Production
“Gamedata\Teams\Supertouring\Alfa Romeo 156\ESTC 2001
“GameData\Teams\Supertouring\Mitsubishi Carisma”
“Gamedata\Teams\Supertouring\Toyota EXIV\JTCC 1997”

>Drop into root GTR2 install.

WHAT'S NEW / CHANGES (2.21)
>New suspension geometry for majority of the mod cars courtesy AndreasFSC and his Race07 update. New changes include unique suspension for individual cars rather than the standard suspension model used across nearly all cars beforehand.

>Adjusted Centre Of Gravity (CoG) for all cars. Lower CoG leads to a car slightly more understeering, however this is balanced out with the rear suspension adjustments. AI may be more prone to driving mistakes and driving off road, however they are also less likely to roll-over.

>Adjusted brakes on all cars. Modern cars have approx +15% improvement in brakes from before, and lesser effect on older cars. Coupled with CoG adjustments later gen ST cars are much faster over a lap now.

>Brake balance by default has been adjusted.

>Changed fuel estimates for engines where AI under-fuelling was an issue. (Thanks to Pimmy)

> Changed graphical offset in various .hdcs to fix ride heights that were too high (Audi A4, Honda Accord EX, Mazda Lantis, Mitsubishi Carisma). (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Changed gear ratios for Ford Sierra RS500/RS Cosworth. (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Assigned correct .hdcs to 1991 BTCC Ford Sierra Sapphires (RWD & 4WD were transposed). (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Changed driver name for Andy Wallace's 1993 BTCC BMW and added talent file. (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Changed genstring for Philip Verellen's 1993 PROCAR Toyota to give it the correct wheels (had small production rims). (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Changed file names & car numbers for 1997 JTCC Toyota EXIVs to make correct skins appear. (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Changed Yvan Muller's 2001 Alfa Romeo to the correct number & skin. 01033EU .car & .gtr files will need to be deleted. (Thanks to Pimmy)

>Adjusted talent file for John Bintcliffe
>Adjusted several CIVT 1993 entries which had no “ComparativeTime” in .CAR file, thus always starting up front when a Qualifying session was skipped.

>Adjusted file name and HDC for the Renault 19.

>Added 1997 Vauxhall Vectra physics – used on the BTCC, TT & Bathurst entries.

>Fixed errors causing CTD’s loading the 1999 BTCC Ford Mondeo Mk2’s.

>Fixed file directory error with the Mercedes 190E & Mitsubishi Carisma.

>Fixed graphical glitch with the Alfa Romeo 156 Production car.

>Fixed HDC error with Toyota Carina Production car.

>Fixed incorrect HDC with Honda Accord production car.

**intelpower** 29/3/2018, 18:56

GTP_furinkazen wrote:

V2.22 is released soon by the way. V2.23 work has already begun - that will be a mainly visual update for items such as steering wheels, interior trim and banners.

are Norvegian pack plus the extra STCC skins on the cards? Smile

**pimmy** 29/3/2018, 20:00

I'm getting a CTD with BMWs: "Could not find ST_BMW.SP"

**Mottois** 29/3/2018, 20:20

GTP_furinkazen wrote:
Mottois wrote:
GTP_furinkazen wrote:
alphalead15 wrote:For some reason my windshield is black and i cant see out of it not sure if this is a problem with the mod or something i have but it only affects this mod

Problem with the HQ windscreen mod. Over at NoGrip we are working on a way of making it compatible.

Will have some info next few days on contents of 2.22, which will perhaps be the most important update of all for the mod.

Thank you for your great mod, the equivalent of Power and Glory !
May I suggest a few changes ?

1. Why do you use 800/600 format for your introduction (Lod) image of the circuit which gives ugly transformation on mainstream 16/9 screens ?
2. Cars spécifications are needed when you choose one before a race. Why don't you use this soft "Showroom Tech Specs1-11.exe" which easily create the missing files ?

1) What do you mean?
2) What's that? Never heard of it.

2. Go there, you know well the site [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"'Showroom Tech Specs' is a program designed to create the files required for display of Tech Specs in the GTR2 showroom. It can also export engine graph files and browse GTR2 vehicle characteristics.
Most mods and addon cars do not include any showroom tech spec files. Creating the four files required for each car is very tedious. If you change an engine in a car it is equally tiresome to update the files. 'Showroom Tech Specs' automates this process." So....
1. I dont know if it's a problem with my 2540/1440 screen but the presentation image of your 90s track séries and the 4.0 pack track are badly stretched ( for example the "4Don_LOD.jpg " used in the mod as the first round of BTTC 1997 has a 4/3 format. Replacing it with a 16/9 one works fine.

Thanks again for your work

**GTP_furinkazen** 29/3/2018, 21:38

intelpower wrote:
GTP_furinkazen wrote:

V2.22 is released soon by the way. V2.23 work has already begun - that will be a mainly visual update for items such as steering wheels, interior trim and banners.

are Norvegian pack plus the extra STCC skins on the cards?

Yes.

pimmy wrote:I'm getting a CTD with BMWs: "Could not find ST_BMW.SP"

Missing file error. Will upload later tonight.

**theravenousbeast** 29/3/2018, 22:59

Ehhh. I've waited out a few patches now but the physics are still, frankly, awful.

Supertourers simply can't feel less responsive and heavier than S2000 cars, yet they do. The RWD cars are just about impossible to drive quickly, the FWD slide in the rear but they never completely lose grip. The AWD never felt good but that's more a fault of GTR2. I've no idea how a diff is supposed to be 130% locked. Default setups are poor, the gear ratios are all over the place.

I appreciate the work regarding all the series, championships and tracks but the driving itself is not good. Now I don't expect it to be super realistic, but some cars are barely driveable. Now let me be clear - if you're not pushing the car to its limits it might be. BUT - with a wheel at the limit it does not feel responsive, informative or even predictable. I don't know what's the problem - inertia, suspension geometry, suspension settings, damper settings or tyres but it does not feel good. My personal suggestion is either converting Andreas's tyres, suspension and handling files or going back to Simon's. The seasonal upgrades and differences between works and privateers are all fine - the core driving isn't.

**GTP_furinkazen** 29/3/2018, 23:16

theravenousbeast wrote:Ehhh. I've waited out a few patches now but the physics are still, frankly, awful.

Supertourers simply can't feel less responsive and heavier than S2000 cars, yet they do. The RWD cars are just about impossible to drive quickly, the FWD slide in the rear but they never completely lose grip. The AWD never felt good but that's more a fault of GTR2. I've no idea how a diff is supposed to be 130% locked. Default setups are poor, the gear ratios are all over the place.

I appreciate the work regarding all the series, championships and tracks but the driving itself is not good. Now I don't expect it to be super realistic, but some cars are barely driveable. Now let me be clear - if you're not pushing the car to its limits it might be. BUT - with a wheel at the limit it does not feel responsive, informative or even predictable. I don't know what's the problem - inertia, suspension geometry, suspension settings, damper settings or tyres but it does not feel good. My personal suggestion is either converting Andreas's tyres, suspension and handling files or going back to Simon's. The seasonal upgrades and differences between works and privateers are all fine - the core driving isn't.

Part of the issue may be that I don't have a wheel myself, but I have sent these for testing beforehand to wheel users.

RE the differential, that's a weird value I agree, but seems that GTR2 wouldn't allow for anything else but a stupidly high level to stabilise the cars.

If you or anyone else does want to help with testing etc, more than welcome to drop me a PM.

EDIT: Imo I think there's something wrong with damper settings, but I am unsure exactly what.

**ChaosZero** 30/3/2018, 22:30

Which one is the update that is supposed to have the Accord in production trim? Because v2.22 added a new .hdc for it but there are no files for the car itself. Not in the "full" v2.2 and v2.21 patch links from your FB page anyway.

**simspeed_racing** 1/4/2018, 12:49

Did someone post about a proper fix for the clash with dirtscreen and the HQ mod yet ?
If not the problem is with transparency settings on the GMT file so to fix you need to change to these settings as highlighted on each dirtscreen GMT file.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

**GTP_furinkazen** 2/4/2018, 01:05

simspeed_racing wrote:Did someone post about a proper fix for the clash with dirtscreen and the HQ mod yet ?
If not the problem is with transparency settings on the GMT file so to fix you need to change to these settings as highlighted on each dirtscreen GMT file.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Someone did a fix at NoGrip which involved a file in every car folder. Not ideal, something like what you posted above may be much easier to do, thanks a lot Simon.

Note RE physics. It's interesting as everyones giving me different feedback. Some people saying certain cars are undriveable, yet others saying they're ok.

**ChaosZero** 2/4/2018, 10:34

ChaosZero wrote:Which one is the update that is supposed to have the Accord in production trim? Because v2.22 added a new .hdc for it but there are no files for the car itself. Not in the "full" v2.2 and v2.21 patch links from your FB page anyway.

**pimmy** 2/4/2018, 18:15

I still have the 2.01 patch on my PC, which was the last one the Accord was included in. Here's the car: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

**repaban** 2/4/2018, 18:35

Thank you

**theravenousbeast** 2/4/2018, 21:11

A bit off topic but I finally had a crack at Andreas' updated RACE 07 mod, and I have to say apart from a bit of tire grip oddities the physics seem pretty good. Did about 3-4 laps around Thruxton with each drivetrain variant. Much better than in his older versions at least - the cars feel very stiff but very precise to steering inputs (this is key IMO). The RWDs are noticeably improved, something that his version always had problem with. I also tried a 1992 Carina and the difference in downforce was much more noticeable - much more power understeer, more looseness after the initial turn and more pronounced weight transfer, especially under braking compared to the newer car.
The issue with the tires I felt was odd though - through the fast corners the FWD left a trail of smoke. The FFB disappears as if the car is losing grip but infact it is cornering at its peak. Generally it felt that once you go past the limits the car should spin but for whatever reason it doesn't. Overall I think it's an improvement and definitely worth looking into.

A problem I think both versions have is the cars never lose rear grip completely. They might twitch or slide but it is very easy to catch. Church at Thruxton for example - from onboards you can see that drivers barely turn the wheel, it's almost as if they slightly point the car and then balance it through. With both mods even if you kinda miss the line you can correct it throughout the corner.

**ChaosZero** 2/4/2018, 21:21

pimmy wrote:I still have the 2.01 patch on my PC, which was the last one the Accord was included in. Here's the car: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cheers, thanks.

theravenousbeast wrote:[...]

Haven't had issues myself, other than the brake bias being something like 70:30 on most FWDs, making it impossible to slow down without locking the front tires. 60:40 is much more driveable.

The only thing I dislike is the fact that most cars share the same sounds, and almost all of them have the wrong ones anyway.

**intelpower** 2/4/2018, 22:32

theravenousbeast wrote:

A problem I think both versions have is the cars never lose rear grip completely. They might twitch or slide but it is very easy to catch. Church at Thruxton for example - from onboards you can see that drivers barely turn the wheel, it's almost as if they slightly point the car and then balance it through. With both mods even if you kinda miss the line you can correct it throughout the corner.

isn't this actually better as it's just game on an old engine ? between too much and too little , too little is defenetely the much less evil otherwise it's just too frustrating to play Razz

**theravenousbeast** 2/4/2018, 22:56

intelpower wrote:
theravenousbeast wrote:

A problem I think both versions have is the cars never lose rear grip completely. They might twitch or slide but it is very easy to catch. Church at Thruxton for example - from onboards you can see that drivers barely turn the wheel, it's almost as if they slightly point the car and then balance it through. With both mods even if you kinda miss the line you can correct it throughout the corner.

isn't this actually better as it's just game on an old engine ? between too much and too little , too little is defenetely the much less evil otherwise it's just too frustrating to play

Oh I agree. I just thought I'd mention it since otherwise the RACE mod update seems closest to the the real cars.

I'll do a video tonight of both mods and try to explain my thoughts more as I drive the cars.

**intelpower** 2/4/2018, 23:09

an example, if you drive your normal road car and do some quick slaloms you do feel thru your body the G-forces and perhaps the rear of the car what it will do (let's assume you have an old one without ESP) , on a computer sim you don't have that feeling at all

also I remember in Rfactor there was this brutal mod F1 1971 , it was barely on the servers , people prefered the easier to drive mods , it simply makes no fun if you fear that you spin in every corner

that's why that the cars do not have a tendency to spin as it is is fine Smile

**jr82** 3/4/2018, 02:28

intelpower wrote:an example, if you drive your normal road car and do some quick slaloms you do feel thru your body the G-forces and perhaps the rear of the car what it will do (let's assume you have an old one without ESP) , on a computer sim you don't have that feeling at all

also I remember in Rfactor there was this brutal mod F1 1971 , it was barely on the servers , people prefered the easier to drive mods , it simply makes no fun if you fear that you spin in every corner

that's why that the cars do not have a tendency to spin as it is is fine

F1 1979 Mod for GTR2 is shocking for spinning at each corner, mainly on acceleration the thing almost rotates on the spot.

Looking at onboards from the '91/'00 season reviews the non aero cars did look a handful to drive (in a fun way) & the aero cars seemed as tho they were on rails by comparison. it was rare to see any of these cars in the ST spinning unless hit by another car of course Wink

1 thing i did notice was it's possible to go through church flat at thruxton with room to spare while in the reviews even the aero cars (late 90's-00) seemed to have a dab on the brakes on corner entry.

**simspeed_racing** 3/4/2018, 15:37

The best thing to do is maybe create a test car for each drivetrain, a single FWD, 4WD and RWD and try the new RACE phyisics that AndreasFSC has used and work from there. The big problem I found when developing this mod was that there are so many variables: you are constantly having to balance the three drivetrains whilst at the same time create a happy medium between what works well for both the player and the AI. This is before you take into account the differences between each model and the development of super touring cars from the early pre -aero days to the late era cars.

I've been using the WTCC mod that Esport Racing converted and released (the most comprehensive RACE conversion of S2000 cars) and it reminded that depsite some flaws the orginlal RACE cars are actually quite good fun to drive and are very different from the league based mod that I used originally as a base for the ST physics.

**Mottois** 3/4/2018, 22:24

The 2.22 version of the mod is a great achievement and seems to give more secured braking and more grip in the curves so i'have improved up to one second per lap on my favorite circuit Donington international BTTC.
But the consequence of better performances of the cars is that it's even more difficult to race against the AI.
For instance in a race with 2.21 version in Donington park (100% /simulation) the top 6 IA ranged from 1'38"6 to 1'39"5 which is already pretty fast but not impossible for me with 2.22 (Laguna, Vectra).
To day with the new version, the top 6 where between 1'35" 5 ( a bit faster than in real life) and 1'37"5. With a 1'39"5 you get only 15th place......and we don't speak about qualifications usualy faster.
I wonder nobody seems to notice the change. Closer to real performances but even farther to reach.

**GTP_furinkazen** 4/4/2018, 14:21

ChaosZero wrote:Which one is the update that is supposed to have the Accord in production trim? Because v2.22 added a new .hdc for it but there are no files for the car itself. Not in the "full" v2.2 and v2.21 patch links from your FB page anyway.

ChaosZero wrote:
pimmy wrote:I still have the 2.01 patch on my PC, which was the last one the Accord was included in. Here's the car: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Cheers, thanks.

Apologies for missing this post CHaosZero.

theravenousbeast wrote:[...]
Haven't had issues myself, other than the brake bias being something like 70:30 on most FWDs, making it impossible to slow down without locking the front tires. 60:40 is much more driveable.

The only thing I dislike is the fact that most cars share the same sounds, and almost all of them have the wrong ones anyway.

simspeed_racing wrote:The best thing to do is maybe create a test car for each drivetrain, a single FWD, 4WD and RWD and try the new RACE phyisics that AndreasFSC has used and work from there. The big problem I found when developing this mod was that there are so many variables: you are constantly having to balance the three drivetrains whilst at the same time create a happy medium between what works well for both the player and the AI. This is before you take into account the differences between each model and the development of super touring cars from the early pre -aero days to the late era cars.

I've been using the WTCC mod that Esport Racing converted and released (the most comprehensive RACE conversion of S2000 cars) and it reminded that depsite some flaws the orginlal RACE cars are actually quite good fun to drive and are very different from the league based mod that I used originally as a base for the ST physics.

Mottois wrote:The 2.22 version of the mod is a great achievement and seems to give more secured braking and more grip in the curves so i'have improved up to one second per lap on my favorite circuit Donington international BTTC.
But the consequence of better performances of the cars is that it's even more difficult to race against the AI.
For instance in a race with 2.21 version in Donington park (100% /simulation) the top 6 IA ranged from 1'38"6 to 1'39"5 which is already pretty fast but not impossible for me with 2.22 (Laguna, Vectra).
To day with the new version, the top 6 where between 1'35" 5 ( a bit faster than in real life) and 1'37"5. With a 1'39"5 you get only 15th place......and we don't speak about qualifications usualy faster.
I wonder nobody seems to notice the change. Closer to real performances but even farther to reach.

RE sounds - majority sounds are fine and they've not been touched except for some small bass and pitch adjustments for more of a "rumble" than the original versions. For in-car their are extra sound samples available for the Laguna, Vectra, and a couple others but I have no way of converting / creating them.

RE physics - something i've noticed is the changes i've made have generally been small adjustments with spring rates that have had a major effect. What i'll do next update is keep the current physics but put back in the option to adjust the springs 1 or 2 clicks up and down - and that should be good enough for pretty much everybody. Audi still does have a couple issues that I am working on.

RE circuits / AI - I have a full trackpack including AI optimised for the mod ready for release apart from it missing a single AIW file for Thruxton. When I get that, it's all set for release.

Apologies for lack of info, been quite busy this week. Off Brands for BTCC this weekend as well.

Just a note physics changes will be V2.23, as well as updated interiors / colouring on some cars. Noticed BMW interior is slightly off.

**X8X8X** 4/4/2018, 20:00

Stupid question:
Do these cars use physics based on Simbim's own 850 and S40 Super Touring cars, converted to GTR2?
I feel like the physics of these two cars come pretty close to what I expect early and late Super Touring Cars to drive like.

Best,
X8X8X

**simspeed_racing** 5/4/2018, 10:03

No I tried those in the very early days of this mod and in GTR2 the AI would struggle to stay on track and had a tendency to roll over without much effort.

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