FRM TOURING CARS by FRM TEAM - RELEASE: SUPER TOURING V1.1 Update

As a reference, here are my new talent files for the SEATCZC:
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You might not recognise any of these drivers, but still have a look into them if you're interested. You will see that there are some aggressive differences between drivers - even those that were on similar levels in the races, as their cars were also a major factor in their success. I'd argue Radisich was definitely a fair bit better than Tarquini (the 155 was a true rocket ship in '94, Simoni should not have done as well as he did), so you may want to tone Gabriele back or speed Paul up.

Alessio_F1 wrote:As a reference, here are my new talent files for the SEATCZC:
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You might not recognise any of these drivers, but still have a look into them if you're interested. You will see that there are some aggressive differences between drivers - even those that were on similar levels in the races, as their cars were also a major factor in their success. I'd argue Radisich was definitely a fair bit better than Tarquini (the 155 was a true rocket ship in '94, Simoni should not have done as well as he did), so you may want to tone Gabriele back or speed Paul up.

Thx very much for the replies, i have considered editing the Driver files manually as i have a basic understanding of they they work etc & using seperate folders for each season (to cover off some drivers being good in some seasons but not so great in others). That is how earlier versions of this mod were laid out. Adjusting other series is no issue as i only use BTCC seasons. FWIW Simoni is same speed as Tarquini so i could try swapping Sim/Rad & see how that goes etc. As i have posted previously i have even tried the game with the talent files being deleted & still got the same results. As u say a bit of trial & error & we'll see how it goes.

jr82 wrote:using seperate folders for each season (to cover off some drivers being good in some seasons but not so great in others). That is how earlier versions of this mod were laid out.

Even that would have worked properly only if you kept only the season you wanted and moved the rest elsewhere.

jr82 wrote:

Alessio_F1 wrote:As a reference, here are my new talent files for the SEATCZC:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You might not recognise any of these drivers, but still have a look into them if you're interested. You will see that there are some aggressive differences between drivers - even those that were on similar levels in the races, as their cars were also a major factor in their success. I'd argue Radisich was definitely a fair bit better than Tarquini (the 155 was a true rocket ship in '94, Simoni should not have done as well as he did), so you may want to tone Gabriele back or speed Paul up.

Thx very much for the replies, i have considered editing the Driver files manually as i have a basic understanding of they they work etc & using seperate folders for each season (to cover off some drivers being good in some seasons but not so great in others). That is how earlier versions of this mod were laid out. Adjusting other series is no issue as i only use BTCC seasons. FWIW Simoni is same speed as Tarquini so i could try swapping Sim/Rad & see how that goes etc. As i have posted previously i have even tried the game with the talent files being deleted & still got the same results. As u say a bit of trial & error & we'll see how it goes.

As Nebehr mentioned, that option can work but only if you have 1 talent file per driver. You will have to move all of the BTCC driver talent files out of your GTR2 folder (it might work if you move it out of the GameData directory, but best to keep on your desktop or docs etc) and add only the talent files for the season you want. If you don't, then the game will look for any talent file and will choose the first it finds, so your results would vary. rF handily solved this by adding an option to define which talent folder to search for, but I don't think this is possible in GTR2 afaik.

About getting the same results regardless of whether the talent files are there or not, the physics for each car are very different and they do partially dictate the results. As I mentioned earlier, the talent files are written VERY leniently so there is hardly any difference in pace (the race ability field in talent files only have an affect of a few tenths, the CorneringAdd/Multi can create differences of seconds) and so positions won't change a lot without the files. The 1994 BTCC Alfa 155 is a mile ahead of its competition, so they are most likely to be first in every session.

One last option that can help to improve results is giving each car their own setup per track. You will need to change 'AI Specified Setups' (or something like that) in your .plr file and then create a setup file for each car, at each track. Rename each .svm file from within your settings folder to the name of the track (you can find this in your GDB file and look for the .svm fields towards the middle) and put these within either your vehicle folder (ie BMW e36) or directly within the BTCC season if car specs vary significantly per year. You might only need to adjust the gear ratios. At a high-speed circuit like Thruxton where cars are reaching the top of 6th gear, it's important to make sure that the car is maximising their engine. Some cars, like the BMW 320i in later seasons, have a short gearing as default and so might need their gears stretched. Others might have high ratios and need to be shortened.

Nebehr wrote:

jr82 wrote:using seperate folders for each season (to cover off some drivers being good in some seasons but not so great in others). That is how earlier versions of this mod were laid out.

Even that would have worked properly only if you kept only the season you wanted and moved the rest elsewhere.

That's exactly how i did it. Just swapped to next season before starting it.

Alessio_F1 wrote:

jr82 wrote:

Alessio_F1 wrote:As a reference, here are my new talent files for the SEATCZC:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You might not recognise any of these drivers, but still have a look into them if you're interested. You will see that there are some aggressive differences between drivers - even those that were on similar levels in the races, as their cars were also a major factor in their success. I'd argue Radisich was definitely a fair bit better than Tarquini (the 155 was a true rocket ship in '94, Simoni should not have done as well as he did), so you may want to tone Gabriele back or speed Paul up.

Thx very much for the replies, i have considered editing the Driver files manually as i have a basic understanding of they they work etc & using seperate folders for each season (to cover off some drivers being good in some seasons but not so great in others). That is how earlier versions of this mod were laid out. Adjusting other series is no issue as i only use BTCC seasons. FWIW Simoni is same speed as Tarquini so i could try swapping Sim/Rad & see how that goes etc. As i have posted previously i have even tried the game with the talent files being deleted & still got the same results. As u say a bit of trial & error & we'll see how it goes.

As Nebehr mentioned, that option can work but only if you have 1 talent file per driver. You will have to move all of the BTCC driver talent files out of your GTR2 folder (it might work if you move it out of the GameData directory, but best to keep on your desktop or docs etc) and add only the talent files for the season you want. If you don't, then the game will look for any talent file and will choose the first it finds, so your results would vary. rF handily solved this by adding an option to define which talent folder to search for, but I don't think this is possible in GTR2 afaik.

About getting the same results regardless of whether the talent files are there or not, the physics for each car are very different and they do partially dictate the results. As I mentioned earlier, the talent files are written VERY leniently so there is hardly any difference in pace (the race ability field in talent files only have an affect of a few tenths, the CorneringAdd/Multi can create differences of seconds) and so positions won't change a lot without the files. The 1994 BTCC Alfa 155 is a mile ahead of its competition, so they are most likely to be first in every session.

One last option that can help to improve results is giving each car their own setup per track. You will need to change 'AI Specified Setups' (or something like that) in your .plr file and then create a setup file for each car, at each track. Rename each .svm file from within your settings folder to the name of the track (you can find this in your GDB file and look for the .svm fields towards the middle) and put these within either your vehicle folder (ie BMW e36) or directly within the BTCC season if car specs vary significantly per year.  You might only need to adjust the gear ratios. At a high-speed circuit like Thruxton where cars are reaching the top of 6th gear, it's important to make sure that the car is maximising their engine. Some cars, like the BMW 320i in later seasons, have a short gearing as default and so might need their gears stretched. Others might have high ratios and need to be shortened.

The issue i am having is the field is like a Noah's ark in terms of results. Simoni is sometimes quicker than Tarquini & they are 1-2 (as per real season) BMW are next then Renault, it's like the cars are different (which they are meant to be) but the Drivers files are making no difference at all. Even with the Drivers files deleted i still get the exact same laptimes/results.  Having just checked the cornering line u mentioned, each driver (checked a few of top guys & slower guys) are 1 for the corneringadd line & 1.0 on the multi line. i'll have a muck around with that like & see what difference that makes. (as above i have little to no knowledge of what the #'s do exactly so it's all trial & error at this stage).

Edit
Just checked previous version of mod -

// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
CorneringAdd=1.69
CorneringMult=.968
That is Tarquini's value for season '94 while simoni's is -
// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
CorneringAdd=1.58
CorneringMult=.955

I am assuming all drivers have 1.0 as default value & the add & multi values are variations on that?

Came across another issue. One of the tire slip curves is missing. Look for all TYR files containing reference to "Lat2", there is no curve with such name. This will be reproduced if you try to drive one of these cars (predominantly 4WD) in 100% rain. Quick fix is to replace all bad references with "Lateral", but I am assuming a different slip curve was intended for wet conditions.

jr82 wrote:The issue i am having is the field is like a Noah's ark in terms of results. Simoni is sometimes quicker than Tarquini & they are 1-2 (as per real season) BMW are next then Renault, it's like the cars are different (which they are meant to be) but the Drivers files are making no difference at all. Even with the Drivers files deleted i still get the exact same laptimes/results.  Having just checked the cornering line u mentioned, each driver (checked a few of top guys & slower guys) are 1 for the corneringadd line & 1.0 on the multi line. i'll have a muck around with that like & see what difference that makes. (as above i have little to no knowledge of what the #'s do exactly so it's all trial & error at this stage).

Edit
Just checked previous version of mod -

// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
 CorneringAdd=1.69
CorneringMult=.968
That is Tarquini's value for season '94 while simoni's is -
// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
CorneringAdd=1.58
CorneringMult=.955

I am assuming all drivers have 1.0 as default value & the add & multi values are variations on that?

If you're finding that Simoni is faster than Tarquini at times, then slow Simoni down. Set Simoni's Race Ability to something like 3.0 and qualifying to 6/7/8etc, and you should quickly see a difference.

As I mentioned earlier, the Alfa 155 was a rocket ship compared to the rest of the grid, hence why Tarquini absolutely obliterated the field. Simoni is by no means a slow or bad driver, but he was definitely slower than Tarquini and probably by a few tenths, so you would need to set his ratings a fair bit lower.

Even though his 'ratings' would be much lower than Tarquini or Radisich, he will probably still qualify and run in the Top 5 as the Alfa was so much faster (as I said before, rocket ship compared to ALL of its rivals). Experiment and see what works best, but I don't think you will need separate talent files per season. 1 should work and the mod's physics progression through the years should help to balance them.

Alessio_F1 wrote:

jr82 wrote:The issue i am having is the field is like a Noah's ark in terms of results. Simoni is sometimes quicker than Tarquini & they are 1-2 (as per real season) BMW are next then Renault, it's like the cars are different (which they are meant to be) but the Drivers files are making no difference at all. Even with the Drivers files deleted i still get the exact same laptimes/results.  Having just checked the cornering line u mentioned, each driver (checked a few of top guys & slower guys) are 1 for the corneringadd line & 1.0 on the multi line. i'll have a muck around with that like & see what difference that makes. (as above i have little to no knowledge of what the #'s do exactly so it's all trial & error at this stage).

Edit
Just checked previous version of mod -

// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
 CorneringAdd=1.69
CorneringMult=.968
That is Tarquini's value for season '94 while simoni's is -
// Increase attempted low-speed cornering by adding a minimum onto calculated speed.
// Reduce attempted high-speed cornering by multiplying speed by a number less than 1.0.
// <adjusted speed> = CorneringAdd + (CorneringMult * <original speed>)
CorneringAdd=1.58
CorneringMult=.955

I am assuming all drivers have 1.0 as default value & the add & multi values are variations on that?

If you're finding that Simoni is faster than Tarquini at times, then slow Simoni down. Set Simoni's Race Ability to something like 3.0 and qualifying to 6/7/8etc, and you should quickly see a difference.

As I mentioned earlier, the Alfa 155 was a rocket ship compared to the rest of the grid, hence why Tarquini absolutely obliterated the field. Simoni is by no means a slow or bad driver, but he was definitely slower than Tarquini and probably by a few tenths, so you would need to set his ratings a fair bit lower.

Even though his 'ratings' would be much lower than Tarquini or Radisich, he will probably still qualify and run in the Top 5 as the Alfa was so much faster (as I said before, rocket ship compared to ALL of its rivals). Experiment and see what works best, but I don't think you will need separate talent files per season. 1 should work and the mod's physics progression through the years should help to balance them.

cheers for the idea's. As a guide do you now a rough difference in laptime between values 0 & 6 (slowest #)? Does consistency also go between 0 & 6 as well? I'll have to see how i go as Radisich is at 0 (fastest) & he's currently nowhere. I'll have to have a play around & see where it ends up.

Alessio_F1 wrote:As a reference, here are my new talent files for the SEATCZC:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You might not recognise any of these drivers, but still have a look into them if you're interested. You will see that there are some aggressive differences between drivers - even those that were on similar levels in the races, as their cars were also a major factor in their success. I'd argue Radisich was definitely a fair bit better than Tarquini (the 155 was a true rocket ship in '94, Simoni should not have done as well as he did), so you may want to tone Gabriele back or speed Paul up.

It seems offline, possible to get a link, your new talents as benchmark will be very nice for any mods from me with "not good talents".
best greetings mike

Please can someone help!!

I have loads of cars not showing in the showroom spinner. I have the base pack 1.0 with the 1.1 from the mega link. Added the super touring update but still no cars

This is using the Anniversary updated version of GTR2

Group A cars like the Rs500 and BMW e30 don't show but also the Primera so I'm lost

Hi David,

First you need to install base mod and then install V1.0 + V1.1 pack:
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Hope it helps you,

BTW, I've been trying the mod again after a long time, and I have an extrange issue with the front window in the cockpit view:
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It happened with every car I tried, does anyone else have this problem?

Cheers!

drr6 wrote:Hi David,

First you need to install base mod and then install V1.0 + V1.1 pack:
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Hope it helps you,

BTW, I've been trying the mod again after a long time, and I have an extrange issue with the front window in the cockpit view:
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It happened with every car I tried, does anyone else have this problem?

Cheers!

Thank you!!

I feel an idiot now how did I miss that! Can't wait to try these grew up watching all the BTCC. Gravett versus Rouse 1990!!

Regarding your window problem. I have had that with a few rfactor cars in the past. Sometimes it can be fixed by just editiing the dds files but every can might be another problem

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It's possible that you a not matching Dirtscreen file in your install.

All working!

Did a quick race at Brands with the track pack very nostalgic

I was using the BTCC 1992 cars. Only thing I did notice is the netting on the drivers side window was glitching on the Carina and Cavalier. Not major but thought I would mention it

Thanks for all the hard work with this

RemusRacing wrote:
Thank you!!

I feel an idiot now  how did I miss that! Can't wait to try these grew up watching all the BTCC. Gravett versus Rouse 1990!!

Regarding your window problem. I have had that with a few rfactor cars in the past. Sometimes it can be fixed by just editiing the dds files but every can might be another problem

Hi David,

Don't worry, I had the same problem, so I Installed and Uninstalled GTR2 many times. I confused base mod with the other link.

Straightsix wrote:
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It's possible that you a not matching Dirtscreen file in your install.

Hi Andreas,

Yes, that was the problem.  For some reason one of the files was colliding with the GTR233 HQ Dirtscreen files.

Many thanks for help guys,

Cheers!

This issue was caused by the material settings for the dirtscreen being copied from an RFactor conversion, they are different to the standard GTR2 cars and have always clashed with the HQ mod

I would just like to say thanks again for all the hard work on this

It's come a long way since Andreas Race07 version and anyone remember the early days playing Ollie C BTCC mod for F1C?

Ollice C mod was my first foray into painting cars. Having to pause a Australian Supertouring 1998 VHS video just to try and spot the logos fun!

Also nice to see the STCC02, NATCC97 and Procar 97 get a new lease of life

RemusRacing wrote:I would just like to say thanks again for all the hard work on this

It's come a long way since Andreas Race07 version and anyone remember the early days playing Ollie C BTCC mod for F1C?

Ollice C mod was my first foray into painting cars. Having to pause a Australian Supertouring 1998 VHS video just to try and spot the logos fun!

Also nice to see the STCC02, NATCC97 and Procar 97 get a new lease of life

Thank you for your kind words! Work ain't stopping yet. Skinpacks will receive further reworks for even better accuracy/detail. There's also the Toca WTC mod that's also in development.
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Toca World Touring Cars for the playstation! That's a classic!

Didn't that have some random cars like the Subaru Impreza and Mitsubishi Lancer. I remember picking a car from the Japanese section of the game I'm guessing the Chaser maybe

Can't wait

RE Talent file discussion - the talent files themselves are fairly good, but I kept the AIRange in the track AIW a little low so the base AI speed variation was less, i've been playing with that to produce a slightly more realistic grid feel.

GTP_furinkazen wrote:RE Talent file discussion - the talent files themselves are fairly good, but I kept the AIRange in the track AIW a little low so the base AI speed variation was less, i've been playing with that to produce a slightly more realistic grid feel.

Could that be why some Drivers are slower than they should be as the drivers themselves are so close it's too car dependent?

It is also car dependent. For example, Biela in FTCC'93 in the rain is well in the lead thanks to his car, but in dry conditions he lags hopelessly behind.

GTP_furinkazen wrote:RE Talent file discussion - the talent files themselves are fairly good, but I kept the AIRange in the track AIW a little low so the base AI speed variation was less, i've been playing with that to produce a slightly more realistic grid feel.

Having gone through a fair amount of the Italian talent files now, I would take back my previous comments and agree. I'm messing around with the available Italian tracks (and a conversion of Binetto with a funny AIW file...), AI range being one of them. I was hoping it would be consistent, but some tracks need a lot more than others. It adds a bit more realism, but it still doesn't quite solve the problem around all circuits. For the pre-ST CIVT cars, BMW and Alfa should be mixing it but the BMW is so dominant that even drivers with 6.2 race ability and 0.95 cornering speed are able to place in the top 5 with AI range at 1.0...

Alessio_F1 wrote:

GTP_furinkazen wrote:RE Talent file discussion - the talent files themselves are fairly good, but I kept the AIRange in the track AIW a little low so the base AI speed variation was less, i've been playing with that to produce a slightly more realistic grid feel.

Having gone through a fair amount of the Italian talent files now, I would take back my previous comments and agree. I'm messing around with the available Italian tracks (and a conversion of Binetto with a funny AIW file...), AI range being one of them. I was hoping it would be consistent, but some tracks need a lot more than others. It adds a bit more realism, but it still doesn't quite solve the problem around all circuits. For the pre-ST CIVT cars, BMW and Alfa should be mixing it but the BMW is so dominant that even drivers with 6.2 race ability and 0.95 cornering speed are able to place in the top 5 with AI range at 1.0...

Just an idea, but in this instance could lowering the BMW drivers values help? so they'd still be winning due to their car but the drivers in other cars can mix it but their car stops them winning if that makes sense?