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Post  MacGyver666 on 26/8/2013, 05:45

Well, i just wanted to express my opinion on this matter here, and hopefully my topic will not be deleted or i am going to get banned for that.

I've been using this forum for quite some months and suddenly it took a major turn, blocking sections already open for people already allowed to use the forum, download mods, comment...

Ok, i can understand that some guys don't want to share their work with everybody, afraid of his mods get shared on other places. I also can understand that we are supposed to gain trust on admins or users to be allowed to join and have this access. Fair enough.

But some things i can't understand:

1) By what is told in this forum, you're are suposed to be more frequent, access more often the forum, comment... be more ACTIVE to get acess. Fair enough so far. But think with me here, IF the forum only blocks you to DOWNLOAD the mods, but you can see the progress, comment, show some appreciation, some help maybe... Well this rule would be totally right and possible to be followed, BUT, once we (outsiders) can not even SEE the mods, the progresses, comment - reason for what we ALL are here in first place -, how do you admins expect us to be more often? more active?

2) Believe me if you want, but all that i said to get in this forum by the first time, was true and i keept my word on not sharing anything outside here. In fact i didn't share ANYTHING ANYWHERE. I hardly race online, 95% of my free time i have quick races against AI. Yeah, i know, that's not the best way to enjoy the simraces and the mods. But, this is the way that I CAN race. So its that or not to race at all. Anyway, the point here is that aperentely for no reason, i lost the access that was granted to me once.

3) Well, here is more a matter of opinion than something that i don't understand, but anyway. I almost always have been doing some little mods for my use on my games and sims. I never share any mod i've made for GTR2 or rFactor. I used to make mods for NBA 2K series, specially court mods. Used to share on a forum, and i confess i got "selfish" and "ego massage needer" too... but one day i realized, what is the point on all this? Aren't we all with exactly the same pourpose here? To improve a good game or sim and make it better for other people too? So why all this NEED of "permissions", the need of "saying thanks to you", the NEED of blocking people for this or that forum - i mean people that follow the forum rules - why all that?

I can tell as a modder and as a user of other people mods: I THANK ALL OF YOU GUYS FOR EVERY SINGLE MOD YOU DO. Every little detail improvement, every update. The reason i don't keep posting things like "thank you" "great" "keep it up" "awesome"... is that its is kinda pointless AND all that it does is to make a topic get pages and pages of "thanx", which surely is good for the modder. But its counter-productive for a forum perspective. If i have SOMETHING pertinet, useful to say, i say. But if you guys call "active", somebody who post 90% of his messages like "thanx" or "keep it up", i think there is something wrong with your evaluation of a "active" user. I used to open this forum EVERY SINGLE DAY, checked the news, sometimes commented about wrong links, bugs and little things like that. Just because i rarely say something here you judge me as a non-active user?

Well, i hope you guys understand my point here. This is not intended to be a wynning, but a positive "constructive critics" as i think this was a very organized and very well administrated forum until this point and i am hoping to help it get better in someway by expressing my perspective as a "outsider" now.

I sent a PM to Daniel (PATRIOT) about this, but i think after this change, tons of people might have sent him similar messages, so i got little or no attention of him, but as i think this my reflect some other users opinion, i decided to post it as a topic for discussion.

Thank you for your attention,

Cheers

Damian

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Post  giaserg on 26/8/2013, 10:33

My opinion is very clear, I want free sites, for all users, no more private parts.
All content available for all users. Open GTR2 mods part is a beginning and this site will begin the first and the unique gtr2 site

Why somebody should leak something that is just available for everybody here???

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Post  hotpup on 26/8/2013, 12:28

I havent been a member here for long but I think this site is the best of the lot. Every time I need help, I get it no problem. The modders work long hours and it takes skill to create the mods. Small price to pay to just say thank you, even if he gets thanked 100 times! He is the owner of the mod and its up to him if he wants to share it or not. The admin cant be blamed!!! We always blame the admin staff, but at the end of the day, if a mod is leaked, we all lose out, so they walk a fine line having to decide who to trust. If I have to say thank you over and over, I really dont mind. Im sure Daniel doesnt ban or shut someone out for no reason at all! Im not a modder and he has helped me a few times when I ask for it. Its worth the wait to get accepted. Chin up! Very Happy 

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Post  Guest on 26/8/2013, 13:08

Well, the split with a public and private mod section was done because of assholes like vita4one, jc macedo, etc. taking stuff away, publishing it somewhere else without giving credits nor asking that guy who worked on the mod/track/skin if its ok to release it somewhere else. Everyone wants to be respected and if people don't get the respect, they will stop doing mods. This split is also to make sure, that no people like them will get access again, because we gave them the respect in form of credits and in form of asking for permission. They never did so we don't want them here.
And in that case, to see if we can trust you, it's a good way to give a sign that you're active and by giving your opinion to released or WIP stuff - even if it's only a "Thank you!". This might not be important for you as a user, but for a modder, who invested months of time into it, it is important as a motivation.
That public and private split is also done because some of the modders here don't want to share their stuff in public, only with trusted people.
Doing these mods takes a lot of time, weeks and months, lot's of nerves, to finish it (depending on how good you want it yourself in the end).

After this was done, Daniel told to report if you were removed from the approved members list because he made a cleanup of members that weren't active or hardly active with 1 or 2 postings in the last weeks or months. But maybe you've been on holiday and couldn't write, you simply should report it.

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Post  Kalinin on 26/8/2013, 14:07

The funny thing is that active people know someone was stealing stuff from here and posting it in other sites thus why many were removed from members list...
I'm all for a open site but not all moders want that so insisting in talking about it makes no sense IMO.
You want an open site or some moders stop making their job "public"?
There is the area where anyone can join, no moder posted there, means something, right?

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Post  humpmedumpme on 26/8/2013, 15:48

I'll weigh in here...I totally get what you mean about the endless thank-you posts I've
written...I even joked about the forever long offers of thanks ever pushing the modder
to something like this... begins about 35seconds in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] lol! 
The point is it does matter. On all fronts previously mentioned thumbs It shows the admins
who's actually active and also, what your particular interests are based on where you post
as well. Goin out on a limb here and suggesting not every member here is a die-hard or huge
endurance fan but EVEN that can be over-looked if you're a good bloke lol!

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Post  PATR10T on 26/8/2013, 16:57

here some mods where just 2-3 thank u post below... i know this mods were downloaded 100 times... its a shame to download and say not thx... when a modder spend his time on doing some things and earns 3 thx he will not share again any stuff...
no modder wants to read "hey you are a god" we just want a thx

or even better is always when someone found a problem and tell this, so we can make the stuff better Wink

most pm i read on my phone when im at work, i dont do any admin stuff on my phone so i have todo it when im home... im mostly very busy and dont think all the time about pm and this things... so it can be that some people have to wait for some days and i remember that i have someone to add...

sometimes its just a test too... Wink

people write pm and ask for access again and tell me they have not much time so they cant write comments every day but hey they have the time to send me several very long pm to get access again scratchin 

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Post  Guest on 26/8/2013, 17:36

@PATR10T wrote:here some mods where just 2-3 thank u post below... i know this mods were downloaded 100 times... its a shame to download and say not thx... when a modder spend his time on doing some things and earns 3 thx he will not share again any stuff...
no modder wants to read "hey you are a god" we just want a thx

or even better is always when someone found a problem and tell this, so we can make the stuff better Wink

most pm i read on my phone when im at work, i dont do any admin stuff on my phone so i have todo it when im home... im mostly very busy and dont think all the time about pm and this things... so it can be that some people have to wait for some days and i remember that i have someone to add...

sometimes its just a test too... Wink

people write pm and ask for access again and tell me they have not much time so they cant write comments every day but hey they have the time to send me several very long pm to get access again scratchin 
yes, they have the time to write pm-s and download and then they don't have any time left? That mod sits on the disk? yea right. They have the time to play it too.

Not being a modder but being the person who spends free time doing creative work (photography) I know that feedback (in this situation saying "thanks") keeps you going when you're fed up with everything.

But, the greatest appreciation for the modder is when the mod is used in racing and he knows that. Perhaps by downloading and not saying even a "thank you" you make modder feel like he's been robbed.

So, the true title of this topic could be:

"To say thanks to the modders or not? Are you enough human to do it? Are you ready for this great step?"

Perhaps there are other ways to solve this. Try to imagine you paying for every mod you download - you say thanks by buying the mod. That's the greatest appreciation folks!

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Post  Xcross on 26/8/2013, 19:54

I'm just going to give my opinion on the open/closed sections of forum, so just take it lightly. I really think that separating both sections is kind of alienating other members of the forum thus preventing them from going here again. I know that the primary motivation of this is to keep away gimme gimmes and assholes (we all know who it is) but I really feel that this forum might turn to Merlin's forum, where mostly all activity is done privately. You guys do have a good reason to this because its based on the respect of other modders. Plus, having a private section means an increase chance that someone will post those mods somewhere else ( I've seen F302's mod in UMD so I don't know if that is allowed).

This is just my two cents on this.

BTW Is there a chance to get full access again? I'm pretty sure you guys seen me from other forums I really don't gimme gimme or post link outside of forum and also I drop a thank you once in a while from the hard work (It's not convincing but its something Razz

Edit: Thanks for the access I didn't it was going to work! Razz 

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Post  MacGyver666 on 26/8/2013, 22:53

Well, first off, i would like to thank, (yean, here i think is really important Smile ) , thank you guys for this discussion, comprehension and for letting me to get in again.

When i said about the hundreds of thanx and "awesomes", i didn't mean that i don't do it for lack of time, for lack of gratefullness or cricticizing people for feeling thankful, or that it might be a high or low price to pay for a free mod. NO DOUBT at all its a little thing to do, no doubt either its nice to say thanks. I just meant that I THINK its no metter for activity on forum, or even to judge that people didn't like your mod. Like i said i REALLY like every mod, every update, every little detail corrected, and i think everyone who downloads or even just see the progress, likes that too, you can say that by the number of visits and downloads, afterall most of people only downloads some mod after seeing a preview and liked it. I my modest opinion, IF the posts had the option of a "like button". It would be much more productive. To hit a like button and not "help" getting the topic full of thanx is much more reasonable.

Like Daniel just said about commenting about bugs, suggestions and anything to help get it better, even if you're not a modder, but you're helping the modders, is way more useful.

But anyway, if you guys feel the NEED of this kind of "activity", i can do that too. thumps up 

About my long PM, it's just because i felt the need of a long explanation, and why not, some discussion like this topic.

Thanks all you guys that understood my point and helped me out here with a pretty important discussion when we talk about rules of behavior on a very well administered and organized forum like this, so far. Very Happy

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Post  Kalinin on 26/8/2013, 23:22

Never mind......... Rolling Eyes 

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Post  leochabu on 26/8/2013, 23:28

To be an active member you shouldn't write here every day, but I think isn't a problem to say thx sometimes -- not that often, of course.
Reading totenkopf Screenshot topic I did read James (if i'm not mitaken) writing that "Is always good to see that his work was being used by Fab". And what Fab does? He gets some screenshots and put on his own topic. And what it means to James? It means more than a thx or stuff like that.

But, the problem is: Some guys just get stuffs here, use by his own pleasure, have lots of fun (or not) and don't do anything to help EEC growing. No thx, no pics, no comments.

Are the modders your employees? For sure not.
Are they putting price on their job? For sure not.
Are you doing something to help? For sure not.

So, if you don't want to help making the things better just use a bit of your time to get a screenshot, to make a video, to come back here to say thx or just to click on "+" button in the top of the topics.

EDIT: Here is what I said:

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Nice screens, I like seeing others taking screenshots with my creations Smile

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Post  humpmedumpme on 27/8/2013, 04:59

not trying to prolong this exactly but, Damian, you don't seem to be getting it...
"I just meant that I THINK its no metter for activity on forum, or even to judge that people didn't like your mod. Like i said i REALLY like every mod, every update, every little detail corrected, and i think everyone who downloads or even just see the progress, likes that too, you can say that by the number of visits and downloads, afterall most of people only downloads some mod after seeing a preview and liked it. I my modest opinion, IF the posts had the option of a "like button". It would be much more productive. To hit a like button and not "help" getting the topic full of thanx is much more reasonable." Perhaps this last part
you wrote underlines part of the problem that led to your removal..."To hit a like button and not "help" getting the topic full of thanx is much more reasonable."
Daniel (Patriot) created the +/- option months ago as a tool for liking or not, a
mod or post. My own opinion of course but, this shows you're not paying much attention.
Further, when I came here, as with any forum, the more pages a thread has is
usually a good indication of the popularity of the mod. While the modder may
see all the downloads, his only true measure of it's popularity are the comments
and/or +'s. Unless the modder is also an admin, they don't see how many nor whom
has visited. When there are 25 dl's of the mod and only 3 thank-yous or whatever
the chosen accolade, it can't help but be disappointing to the modder...not to
mention, frustrating. By your age here Damian, I would think you may be in to
a relationship by now (living together I mean)...how well will it sit with your spouse
or roommate even, if you enjoy the hell out of a great meal they have just provided
without even so much as a thanks or any other from of gratitude? Just because you ate it
or in this case, dl'd it doesn't suffice. It leads to scratch and Suspect and finally, Evil or Very Mad towards
you for a perceived lack of appreciation for their efforts. Granted, we're not your
spouse lol! but we ARE supposed to be your mates right? Same thing stands.

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Post  PATR10T on 27/8/2013, 07:46

we have a thanks button but it works only for thread starters, when u open a thread u have the chance to press the thanks button one time, it will give the guy u thanked 10 reputation points

sry other way won't work :-(

also u have overtime the chance to press the litte + on the right upper corner on ever post if u like a post from someone ;-)

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Post  Kalinin on 27/8/2013, 13:18

Sorry but I think just going there and clicking on the + (or the "like" suggestion) is too much laziness. Not even me that download nothing for offline use do that.
Hate that thing "you guys are doing it wrong" -> get access back -> "I love you, you are the best" lol

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Post  PATR10T on 27/8/2013, 14:36

thx reputation point + - are not a feature for "hey i need no comments anymore" but when u dont want to write something, maybe u dont use this stuff but with this u can show some respect

a lot stuff i dont use, for example f302 cars or skylines skins, reason is for the cars i have just no use, i prefer the gt3 or lmp and the reason for james liveries is that i have no use for fictional skins because i build real championships... but always when theres a new car from f302 or one new skin from james i go into the thread and press the + button

if the skin is really great or the car is one i like a lot i go into the thread and write some lines to it even when i dont use it Wink but so i can show some respect to others

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Post  Kalinin on 27/8/2013, 14:55

Yep. I try to coment on most things posted here. But I don't download most of them cuz I only drive online.

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Post  MacGyver666 on 27/8/2013, 17:38

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sorry but I think just going there and clicking on the + (or the "like" suggestion) is too much laziness. Not even me that download nothing for offline use do that.
Hate that thing "you guys are doing it wrong" -> get access back -> "I love you, you are the best" lol
Eu vi que você é brasileiro também, então vou explicar pra vc em português pra agilizar: Já disse e repito: Não é questão de preguiça, é questão de não ver sentido em encher um tópico de algo inútil (na minha opinião). Um botão faz muito mais sentido na medida que deixa o tópico mais objetivo.

E outra coisa, eu não babo ovo de ninguém como você tá querendo dizer. Eu vim aqui expor meu ponto de vista e em momento algum pedi meu acesso de volta, mas ainda assim me deram, e eu agradeci. Eu não disse "i love you, you are the best" em momento algum e nem muito menos agi dessa forma. O mesmo elogio que fiz no primeiro post, antes de ter o acesso de volta, eu repeti no meu post seguinte quando agradeci. Eu acho esse forum muito bem organizado e administrado, independente do meu acesso.

Achei seu comentário totalmente desnecessário e pré-julgativo. Suspect  Esse é exatamente o motivo pelo qual eu posto pouco e talvez você também desse pensar: Se não tenho nada útil pra dizer, melhor ficar calado.

Sorry guys, had to give just a quick answer to my fellow in country. Im not the kind of guy he is judging here. If any of you want, i can translate it later today. Got to go now (working). See ya.

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Post  Kalinin on 27/8/2013, 18:57

Um topico sem comentarios não tem objetivo. Desculpe se pareceu rude mas não me referi especificamente a vc com o meu comentario.

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Post  leochabu on 27/8/2013, 20:56

Olha, Damian, em um primeiro momento você afirma que estamos no caminho errado e logo em seguida diz que o site é muito bem administrado... Um tanto quanto ambígua sua afirmação.
De toda forma, o maior problema é nós, brasileiros, latinos, etc., sempre levamos a coisa pro lado passional ou pessoal e achamos que a atitude foi diretamente contra nós. Não foi e não será, garanto.

O fato é que ao abrir um tópico para expressar a sua opinião obviamente você já esperava que os outros mostrassem as deles. Ou isso, ou você é louco.

Ninguém gosta de ter seu trabalho usado sem os devidos créditos, nem você gostaria. Então, pra ser um usuário ativo, bastaria você vir aqui vez ou outra e responder um tópico de apresentação de novos usuários, por exemplo.

Não estamos pedindo muito, estamos? Outra forma de ajudar, e essa sim custa, é clicar no link abaixo da minha assinatura e contribuir para que o servidor permaneça online. Podemos contar com você nisso? Ou, se preferir, pode apenas escrever um "thx", "awesome" ou "keep it up" nos tópicos dos quais você baixa seus MODs para diversão.

Abraços.

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Post  humpmedumpme on 28/8/2013, 11:20

"I said Pardon?" lol If you are Canadian, you will probably understand lol! 

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